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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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this is somewhere in the skies with ryan

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spread

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welcome to somewhere in the skies i'm

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your host ryan sprank well last weekend

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was an absolute whirlwind as i headed

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northeast to the maritime province of

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nova scotia halifax to be exact i gave a

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presentation at the inaugural esso

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terracon hosted by local filmmaker

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author and all around amazing nova

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scotian paul kimball

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kimball wrangled together a group of ufo

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paranormal and esoteric misfits to give

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our thoughts on what the hell is going

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on in this crazy world we call home

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we even got to see stan t friedman the

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father of ufology give his last ever

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presentation before his official

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retirement from the lecture circuit it

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was a memorable emotional and plain fun

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ride compliments of our northern

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neighbors the weekend consisted of talks

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ranging from flat earthers consciousness

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mysticism mythology and ufo lore witness

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and experiencer stories ghosts demons

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and even some sea monsters

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that last one was actually an inside

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joke to anyone who attended the event

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apologies to the rest of you

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but fear not for those who weren't in

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attendance because today i have three of

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the speakers on the show as we sit down

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after the conference has commenced to

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chat about the weekend's offerings what

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we talked about what we learned and

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where we may be heading in the weird

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world of esoterica my guests include

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micah hanks walter bosley and aaron

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gullius this conversation was originally

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recorded by micah for his wonderful show

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the ghrelian report but that didn't stop

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us all from sharing the fun across all

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of our podcasts so sit back relax

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and pop open the bat blue or molson

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canadian and hear all the boots

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oh sorry all about the 2018 esso

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terracon

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sorry to all my canadians out there i

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and i gotta tell you it was wonderful

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being up here not just the weather not

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just the cuisine

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but the company as well and i have a few

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of these fine fellows right here with me

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right now for a bit of a round table

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discussion we will go clockwise starting

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tomorrow my friend and companion of many

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ages i think we've done a lot of

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traveling over the years and had some

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adventures mr ryan sprague of the

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somewhere in the skies podcast how you

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doing there man awesome man it feels so

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good to wrap things up you know the

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nerves get to you you never know what to

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expect when you get to these things but

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i have noticed the past my last two

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conferences have been in uh nova scotia

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and you could not ask for a better crowd

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oh definitely open-minded people

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although i will say with all the walking

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we've been doing the last few days i got

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in today and first thing i said boy are

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my dogs tired you know i i don't think i

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could have walked anymore but anywho

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getting back around to those on the

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table here with us on the on the table

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the panel the discussion mr aaron gulias

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also joins us the saucer for life now

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this is a new podcast that you're doing

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man you've written so many books but

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when i saw that you were getting into

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podcasting too i thought boy we've

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already got a lot to talk about add that

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to the plate too yeah i've been doing it

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since august um i think i'm about 34

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episodes wow it's it's it's pretty

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consistently around every 10 days now of

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course once school starts back up in the

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fall i'm not sure if i'm gonna be able

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to to maintain that but uh yeah it's

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been it's been great to be out here it's

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uh it's been great to meet meet some

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people at the thing this weekend who

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listen to the show which is always weird

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people in real life that you know uh

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jordan bonaparte of the uh nighttime

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podcast he's like like i'm hoping to be

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out there i'm like that'd be cool yeah

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so um yeah great to be out here great to

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meet you three in person um

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the other guys uh on the show um i've

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met all of them it's just you you guys

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and holly stevens i haven't met before

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that's right it was great to meet you

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guys in person new connection speaking

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of people i had never met you before

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aaron although you've been a guest on

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the greatly report in the past and of

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course you know ryan you've been on many

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times another guy who had been on the

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show in the past who i was very eager to

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meet and i'm still jonesing because he's

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sitting right next to me now walter

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mosley right here one of my favorite

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guys and now i can say we've actually

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shared some space yeah enjoyed a few

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fine beverages as well so i i hope

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you've enjoyed the weekend oh yeah i

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just realized seriously a few moments

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ago just dawned on me today's sunday

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yeah yeah you know it just and when you

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go to these things it's like um

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you know if you go to vegas you're in

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the casino you don't know what time of

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day it is when you go to events like

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this and you're hanging out and you're

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doing the event you forget what day it

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is it just i just remembered a few

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minutes ago oh yeah this is sunday the

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weekend's over i've always heard those

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stories you know and it's a good sign

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it was a great a great event so well

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that's been something that's been on my

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weekend or on my mind all weekend is you

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know time literally because it came up

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so many times in different discussions

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with people you know ryan you and i had

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been riffing on this a little bit back

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at the venue holly as she was driving us

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back holly and i were talking about

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human perception of time and the idea of

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experiencing in the moment an event or

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occurrence then 50 years from now will

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be a memory i tell you there were some

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memories in the making this weekend as

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we were seeing off

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here in his sunset years professionally

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and otherwise mr stanton friedman talk

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about a career 84 years old and he got

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up and gave another

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just an incredible lecture

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another thing we have

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you know please look for finger breaks

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and footprints are we ufologists that's

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uh look for physical trace cases kane

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ted phillips in missouri

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has collected several thousand physical

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trace cases from at least 80 countries

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these are cases in which the saucer is

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seen on or near the ground and after it

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leaves

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one finds physical changes the

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equivalent of burn surface burn rings

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landing your marks this is one in

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dovemost kansas

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soil has changed down about 10 inches

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and the soil in the ring i measured had

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the composition measured in the soil of

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the ring and from the surrounding area

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higher level of soluble minerals

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definite physical traces associated with

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the presence of a flying saucer it was

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it was so neat to be in the company of

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all you guys but seeing stanton kind of

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winding things down just was almost

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surreal for me absolutely

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i mean well i was just gonna add to that

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um

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you know full circle this was the first

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lecture he ever gave ufos are real oh is

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that what it was i'm sorry yeah flying

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saucer like i apologize yeah he's online

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he's old school he's always stuck with

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the flying saucers nomenclature but now

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so that was his first life it was his

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first lecture ever and it was the one he

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gave to us in halifax this weekend that

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makes it even wow

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what i like is you know he's got this

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good energy about him and a good sense

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of humor uh you know he just real

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relaxed about the subject and and just

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he just was

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going along you know you know he's had

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some of the most famous detractors over

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the years uh no less among than phillip

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j class

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and he's always remained in such good

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humor about yeah like that i i've had

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only 11 hecklers in my entire career

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and then tim bernal who's not here with

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us in the moment but he may come walking

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in at any time now he's like that

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yeah exactly i don't think he even

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sleeps guys

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he might have been in the trunk of our

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car yeah or he was hanging on underneath

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it big troubling little china style you

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know

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anyone wants proof that alien life

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exists go no further than banal that's

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why they call him the banal of america

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as they call him banal of the universe

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but speaking of universal subjects again

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i think something that we all kind of

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share in common is ufos although of

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course um you know you ryan and uh you

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aaron were talking about ufos

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now walter you were kind of talking

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about the investigative processes that

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you applied to your own resources

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yeah especially yeah and i was looking

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again at altered states of consciousness

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and mysticism and the idea of altered

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states in relation especially to miriam

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so we brought a diverse array of topics

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together but but ufos i think are

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fundamentally a subject that we all

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really share an interest in all of us

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paul kimball of course are our kind host

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who brought us all up here for the

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esoteric on let's start with you aaron

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yeah uh you gave i got to tell you i got

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to pay you some compliments right here

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while we're talking your lecture knocked

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my socks off man

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thank you for folks who don't know a

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little bit about aaron uh let's get some

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background because you are a

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professional history teacher a professor

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educator and an historical researcher

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this all comes into play with your ufo

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research which i love yeah i i teach

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history at a community college in flint

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michigan and uh so how's the water up

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there though the water is not it's not

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great yeah how is that even possible i i

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i at this point it is not possible for

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me to get started yeah it's a long yeah

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yeah um but uh but yeah so it's

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i i teach history um

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generally i've been teaching a lot of

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world history lately but uh but i'm i'm

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switching back to to us because i'm

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getting i'm getting burned out i i'm i'm

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the senior person so i can i pick my

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schedule first so i'm like ancient world

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is getting a little dull i'm gonna

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switch over to moderation oh come on

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does it never really get dull wait we

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haven't gotten to that part of the

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conversation we'll get back around to

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that later sorry go ahead

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tan jakes gets dog covering 15 000 years

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and 15 weeks sure that's

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that's a grind um so i uh i teach

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history for a living and um i i i write

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on the side um mostly about uh four

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books on paranormally type subjects one

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00:10:18,550 --> 00:10:16,800
book about on on history education

273
00:10:20,150 --> 00:10:18,560
topics just to just to prove it wasn't

274
00:10:22,470 --> 00:10:20,160
offline so i want to read that book

275
00:10:24,150 --> 00:10:22,480
actually i like it that's the thing i

276
00:10:26,470 --> 00:10:24,160
like it yeah again looking you're

277
00:10:28,310 --> 00:10:26,480
looking at microfilm looking at visuals

278
00:10:30,150 --> 00:10:28,320
looking at

279
00:10:32,230 --> 00:10:30,160
industrial

280
00:10:34,230 --> 00:10:32,240
films and educational films that were

281
00:10:35,990 --> 00:10:34,240
shown in school things like what to do

282
00:10:38,389 --> 00:10:36,000
on a date and teaching history through

283
00:10:41,910 --> 00:10:38,399
these so instead of instead of a primary

284
00:10:43,190 --> 00:10:41,920
source that students would read about

285
00:10:50,389 --> 00:10:43,200
you know

286
00:10:51,670 --> 00:10:50,399
young college students your age were

287
00:10:53,590 --> 00:10:51,680
shown this film as part of the

288
00:10:56,710 --> 00:10:53,600
curriculum in their college health and

289
00:10:58,790 --> 00:10:56,720
wellness classes yeah and what does this

290
00:11:02,150 --> 00:10:58,800
what does this say about gender roles in

291
00:11:04,150 --> 00:11:02,160
1952 what does it say about race

292
00:11:05,670 --> 00:11:04,160
not much because everybody was white um

293
00:11:07,030 --> 00:11:05,680
that's actually

294
00:11:08,710 --> 00:11:07,040
tangent here but it's interesting

295
00:11:10,630 --> 00:11:08,720
because students this last semester

296
00:11:11,990 --> 00:11:10,640
students did point out like

297
00:11:13,430 --> 00:11:12,000
we've watched a bunch of these and they

298
00:11:14,870 --> 00:11:13,440
had to like choose one of their own and

299
00:11:17,269 --> 00:11:14,880
write a paper about it for an assignment

300
00:11:19,509 --> 00:11:17,279
they said why is ev why are there no

301
00:11:22,630 --> 00:11:19,519
non-white people and i said it ended up

302
00:11:25,350 --> 00:11:22,640
being practical um

303
00:11:27,110 --> 00:11:25,360
there were some companies that did film

304
00:11:29,269 --> 00:11:27,120
uh these these

305
00:11:31,269 --> 00:11:29,279
films with with a with a multi-racial

306
00:11:33,990 --> 00:11:31,279
cast that companies that were located in

307
00:11:36,790 --> 00:11:34,000
northern states did that but they found

308
00:11:38,710 --> 00:11:36,800
that southern school systems refused to

309
00:11:40,949 --> 00:11:38,720
purchase films for the classroom that

310
00:11:43,750 --> 00:11:40,959
didn't that had non-white cast members

311
00:11:45,430 --> 00:11:43,760
right and so rather than have one

312
00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:45,440
group of films for one part of the

313
00:11:48,470 --> 00:11:46,800
country and one group of films for

314
00:11:51,509 --> 00:11:48,480
another it was more it was more

315
00:11:52,949 --> 00:11:51,519
economical too and honestly speaking of

316
00:11:56,069 --> 00:11:52,959
economical if you watch some of these

317
00:11:58,069 --> 00:11:56,079
things anything by by cornet uh you'll

318
00:12:00,150 --> 00:11:58,079
notice that the same three like 30 year

319
00:12:02,310 --> 00:12:00,160
olds play high schoolers

320
00:12:04,470 --> 00:12:02,320
and i notice uh ryan's laptop has the

321
00:12:08,710 --> 00:12:04,480
the mystery science theater uh still

322
00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:10,310
if you read the book what you'll notice

323
00:12:13,829 --> 00:12:11,920
is that most of the film most of the

324
00:12:17,110 --> 00:12:13,839
shorts i watched i picked ones that i

325
00:12:18,949 --> 00:12:17,120
could watch the mst3k track version of

326
00:12:20,870 --> 00:12:18,959
more entertainment

327
00:12:22,949 --> 00:12:20,880
but there's some additional uh cultural

328
00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:22,959
commentary that comes there too i got to

329
00:12:26,230 --> 00:12:24,560
carry this over into the discussion of

330
00:12:27,829 --> 00:12:26,240
the contact t era because you looked at

331
00:12:29,350 --> 00:12:27,839
a broad area of

332
00:12:31,670 --> 00:12:29,360
of history spanning the last several

333
00:12:33,350 --> 00:12:31,680
decades in your talk today about ufos

334
00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:33,360
one thing that you definitely notice you

335
00:12:37,110 --> 00:12:35,200
brought to the attention of those

336
00:12:40,550 --> 00:12:37,120
presidents today ashtar this particular

337
00:12:43,110 --> 00:12:40,560
character but a lot of those contact the

338
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:43,120
alleged uh alien beings from the

339
00:12:47,430 --> 00:12:45,600
contactee era again once

340
00:12:49,509 --> 00:12:47,440
once you really look at them in the

341
00:12:51,190 --> 00:12:49,519
cultural context is it really a big

342
00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:51,200
surprise to you that most of these guys

343
00:12:55,990 --> 00:12:53,680
are again caucasian blonde haired blue

344
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:56,000
eyes you know this no that same sort of

345
00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:58,320
thing was reflected i think also in the

346
00:13:01,990 --> 00:13:00,000
in the fringe culture of that area as

347
00:13:03,430 --> 00:13:02,000
much as it was in like you described you

348
00:13:05,110 --> 00:13:03,440
know videos educational videos and

349
00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:05,120
otherwise you know you can you can take

350
00:13:08,629 --> 00:13:06,720
uh you can take some of the contact ease

351
00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:08,639
and they they're in a lot of ways just

352
00:13:14,949 --> 00:13:11,760
as much a distinctly observable 50s

353
00:13:18,069 --> 00:13:14,959
subculture as the beats for example you

354
00:13:20,949 --> 00:13:18,079
can sort of you can here's a category um

355
00:13:23,350 --> 00:13:20,959
and and just like uh just like the beats

356
00:13:25,110 --> 00:13:23,360
there are there are

357
00:13:28,069 --> 00:13:25,120
there there is more variation than we

358
00:13:30,470 --> 00:13:28,079
sometimes think uh as far as as far as

359
00:13:33,670 --> 00:13:30,480
race and and contactees uh the

360
00:13:35,910 --> 00:13:33,680
musician's son raw uh had had contact

361
00:13:36,790 --> 00:13:35,920
experiences that he talked about um

362
00:13:38,629 --> 00:13:36,800
there is

363
00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:38,639
elijah muhammad

364
00:13:41,990 --> 00:13:40,880
nation of islam um there's there are

365
00:13:44,550 --> 00:13:42,000
things that

366
00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:44,560
uh muhammad ali yeah yeah and and so

367
00:13:50,550 --> 00:13:48,480
there's there's variation uh but

368
00:13:52,470 --> 00:13:50,560
the the variation the variation didn't

369
00:13:53,829 --> 00:13:52,480
work for the talk i was giving away so

370
00:13:55,590 --> 00:13:53,839
so that's you know this is sort of thing

371
00:13:56,870 --> 00:13:55,600
like i want to talk about it oh well see

372
00:13:58,230 --> 00:13:56,880
that's why i'm asking you about it now

373
00:13:59,509 --> 00:13:58,240
because i mean again there's so much

374
00:14:01,590 --> 00:13:59,519
that could be discussed now you know

375
00:14:03,750 --> 00:14:01,600
again one of the focuses of your talk

376
00:14:05,189 --> 00:14:03,760
aaron had to do with this very unique

377
00:14:07,829 --> 00:14:05,199
memorandum was it correct me if i'm

378
00:14:09,750 --> 00:14:07,839
wrong in 1954 yeah a letter yeah sort of

379
00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:09,760
a letter from a guy a metaphysical

380
00:14:13,430 --> 00:14:11,680
researcher named gerald white

381
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:13,440
to uh hug another metaphysical

382
00:14:17,430 --> 00:14:15,120
researcher named mead lane who ran the

383
00:14:20,470 --> 00:14:17,440
borderlands sciences research associates

384
00:14:21,750 --> 00:14:20,480
and a detailed lights account of a

385
00:14:23,990 --> 00:14:21,760
meeting at

386
00:14:27,269 --> 00:14:24,000
murat field edwards air force base in

387
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:27,279
february of 54 between president

388
00:14:33,030 --> 00:14:30,000
eisenhower and some what light called

389
00:14:34,069 --> 00:14:33,040
ethereums which was sort of the bsra's

390
00:14:36,150 --> 00:14:34,079
sort of i thought it was a kind of

391
00:14:37,269 --> 00:14:36,160
cryptocurrency right

392
00:14:39,430 --> 00:14:37,279
yeah

393
00:14:41,910 --> 00:14:39,440
a new one how's that going uh what goes

394
00:14:43,670 --> 00:14:41,920
wrong comes around yeah um yeah the

395
00:14:46,150 --> 00:14:43,680
ethereans you know the ethereums really

396
00:14:48,550 --> 00:14:46,160
dropped in value um but uh

397
00:14:50,069 --> 00:14:48,560
the ethereans were it's hard to explain

398
00:14:51,509 --> 00:14:50,079
they weren't from another planet they

399
00:14:53,350 --> 00:14:51,519
weren't from another dimension they were

400
00:14:55,829 --> 00:14:53,360
from another world

401
00:14:57,829 --> 00:14:55,839
that existed alongside ours but at a

402
00:14:59,750 --> 00:14:57,839
different density

403
00:15:02,870 --> 00:14:59,760
is sort of the way they explained it and

404
00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:02,880
this idea actually emerges

405
00:15:07,430 --> 00:15:06,000
slightly before the flying saucer stuff

406
00:15:09,269 --> 00:15:07,440
i always knew we earthlings were kind of

407
00:15:10,949 --> 00:15:09,279
dense so so there's this

408
00:15:13,350 --> 00:15:10,959
description of a meeting with eisenhower

409
00:15:15,910 --> 00:15:13,360
and the aliens and and this letter gets

410
00:15:18,949 --> 00:15:15,920
picked up decades later by conspiracy

411
00:15:21,269 --> 00:15:18,959
conspiracists like like bill cooper and

412
00:15:24,069 --> 00:15:21,279
phil schneider and and he then gets

413
00:15:26,710 --> 00:15:24,079
picked up by by the by some disclosure

414
00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:26,720
guys and it becomes sort of

415
00:15:31,509 --> 00:15:28,480
this idea of there was a treaty between

416
00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:31,519
the u.s and and the aliens um becomes

417
00:15:39,509 --> 00:15:36,629
the

418
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:39,519
story my dad's had told me for decades

419
00:15:43,030 --> 00:15:41,040
that he was told

420
00:15:44,790 --> 00:15:43,040
about what crashed at roswell and who

421
00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:44,800
they were and then the fact that it had

422
00:15:48,949 --> 00:15:46,720
happened again according to his story in

423
00:15:50,389 --> 00:15:48,959
1958 which of which he was part of the

424
00:15:52,949 --> 00:15:50,399
retrieval

425
00:15:56,710 --> 00:15:52,959
and so what i'm thinking is

426
00:15:58,150 --> 00:15:56,720
whatever psyop or disinfo was the origin

427
00:16:00,470 --> 00:15:58,160
of this letter

428
00:16:01,829 --> 00:16:00,480
you know if it was such if it was right

429
00:16:03,829 --> 00:16:01,839
this info

430
00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:03,839
might have been the same sources you

431
00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:05,600
know what my dad and those guys were

432
00:16:08,710 --> 00:16:06,480
told

433
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:08,720
kind of like the go-to lore or legend

434
00:16:11,430 --> 00:16:10,079
they were using

435
00:16:12,949 --> 00:16:11,440
to cover something else well it gets

436
00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:12,959
really confusing at times because again

437
00:16:16,150 --> 00:16:14,560
you know there's the one half that we

438
00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:16,160
all are hopeful for which is some

439
00:16:19,990 --> 00:16:18,000
reality behind the phenomena then

440
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:20,000
there's the recognition and i think the

441
00:16:23,350 --> 00:16:22,079
acceptance truly and the historical

442
00:16:25,910 --> 00:16:23,360
precedent for

443
00:16:27,189 --> 00:16:25,920
an element of disinformation and also

444
00:16:28,470 --> 00:16:27,199
and the whole time i was listening to

445
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:28,480
your talk and i'll get over you here in

446
00:16:32,470 --> 00:16:30,000
a moment too walter but you know aaron

447
00:16:34,389 --> 00:16:32,480
in your in your talk today i'm seeing

448
00:16:36,150 --> 00:16:34,399
this progression of myth that begins

449
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:36,160
with letters and correspondences between

450
00:16:40,710 --> 00:16:38,560
friends that involve eisenhower aliens

451
00:16:43,189 --> 00:16:40,720
touching down and then the promulgation

452
00:16:45,030 --> 00:16:43,199
of that and its manifestation some might

453
00:16:48,310 --> 00:16:45,040
say regurgitation

454
00:16:50,550 --> 00:16:48,320
and reappearance later on in mj 12.

455
00:16:51,910 --> 00:16:50,560
during the 1980s

456
00:16:54,069 --> 00:16:51,920
three things

457
00:16:55,670 --> 00:16:54,079
emerge in the flying sausage subculture

458
00:16:58,150 --> 00:16:55,680
that was shaped for decades to come

459
00:16:59,829 --> 00:16:58,160
right up until the present

460
00:17:01,670 --> 00:16:59,839
each of these things could be a whole

461
00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:01,680
talk in themselves and and so i'm just

462
00:17:05,110 --> 00:17:03,040
going to sort of summarize them but the

463
00:17:06,710 --> 00:17:05,120
first is the

464
00:17:09,029 --> 00:17:06,720
appearance revelation a collection of

465
00:17:10,949 --> 00:17:09,039
documents discussing a group called mj12

466
00:17:12,949 --> 00:17:10,959
you were here for um for stan's talk

467
00:17:16,230 --> 00:17:12,959
last night you heard about majestic 12

468
00:17:17,990 --> 00:17:16,240
mj 12 this think tank control group of

469
00:17:20,470 --> 00:17:18,000
scientists and military and intelligence

470
00:17:22,549 --> 00:17:20,480
personnel who were supposedly overseeing

471
00:17:25,510 --> 00:17:22,559
the flying saucer mystery managing

472
00:17:27,270 --> 00:17:25,520
american contact with e.t

473
00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:27,280
the second thing that emerges and

474
00:17:31,669 --> 00:17:29,760
becomes prominent in the 1980s emerges

475
00:17:32,950 --> 00:17:31,679
earlier becomes prominent in the 80s is

476
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:32,960
the abduction

477
00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:35,039
which sort of gives rise to a popular

478
00:17:39,510 --> 00:17:37,440
image of alien contact that's often

479
00:17:41,669 --> 00:17:39,520
violent and invasive

480
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:41,679
the third was a disney heard about this

481
00:17:45,430 --> 00:17:43,760
yesterday too a bit a disinformation

482
00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:45,440
campaign waged against new mexico

483
00:17:49,190 --> 00:17:47,280
businessman named paul balance

484
00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:49,200
who um according to those who

485
00:17:53,909 --> 00:17:51,360
investigated like fred bishop in project

486
00:17:56,390 --> 00:17:53,919
veda benowitz had seen what he thought

487
00:17:59,110 --> 00:17:56,400
to be possible ufos more likely some

488
00:18:02,390 --> 00:17:59,120
sort of secret air force experimentation

489
00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:02,400
equipment weapons technology

490
00:18:07,830 --> 00:18:03,600
agents

491
00:18:13,830 --> 00:18:07,840
the air force office of special

492
00:18:18,549 --> 00:18:16,630
embarked on a mission to lead

493
00:18:20,549 --> 00:18:18,559
bennowitz away from

494
00:18:22,630 --> 00:18:20,559
from what he really saw toward an

495
00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:22,640
explanation that was more suited to

496
00:18:25,909 --> 00:18:24,080
their purposes

497
00:18:27,909 --> 00:18:25,919
and one of the people involved with this

498
00:18:30,310 --> 00:18:27,919
was a man named bill moore the ufo

499
00:18:33,350 --> 00:18:30,320
investigator who had gotten gotten

500
00:18:36,470 --> 00:18:33,360
wrapped up in this in the 1992 interview

501
00:18:39,029 --> 00:18:36,480
in uh i think in greg's with reg in

502
00:18:40,630 --> 00:18:39,039
excluded middle magazine more outlined

503
00:18:41,669 --> 00:18:40,640
the elements of the disinformation

504
00:18:43,190 --> 00:18:41,679
campaign

505
00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:43,200
or the disinformation that benefits

506
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:45,520
encountered it included quote the whole

507
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:47,760
story of government alien involvement

508
00:18:52,230 --> 00:18:50,480
treaties with aliens underground bases a

509
00:18:53,830 --> 00:18:52,240
plot to take over the planet implants

510
00:18:57,190 --> 00:18:53,840
two different races of alliances one

511
00:18:58,470 --> 00:18:57,200
aliens one hostile one friendly etc

512
00:18:59,990 --> 00:18:58,480
all the product of quote

513
00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:00,000
counterintelligence people for the

514
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:03,039
purpose of discrediting venomous and

515
00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:04,320
equipment

516
00:19:08,710 --> 00:19:06,640
that is where we come up with the sun

517
00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:08,720
who's that guy anybody knows

518
00:19:19,990 --> 00:19:18,789
john lear emerges in um in the late

519
00:19:22,870 --> 00:19:20,000
1980s

520
00:19:25,990 --> 00:19:22,880
with a statement in 1987 initially

521
00:19:28,870 --> 00:19:26,000
uploaded to um i think to the paranet

522
00:19:30,549 --> 00:19:28,880
bulletin board system sort of a proto uh

523
00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:30,559
proto internet

524
00:19:34,549 --> 00:19:31,760
sort of thing

525
00:19:37,669 --> 00:19:34,559
and in this he reveals what he says is

526
00:19:40,549 --> 00:19:37,679
the truth about uh mj 12 and that this

527
00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:40,559
is far more frightening than anybody

528
00:19:45,950 --> 00:19:41,440
had

529
00:19:48,870 --> 00:19:45,960
quote during the period of

530
00:19:50,310 --> 00:19:48,880
1969-1971 mj-12 representing the u.s

531
00:19:51,430 --> 00:19:50,320
government made a deal with these

532
00:19:52,950 --> 00:19:51,440
creatures

533
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:52,960
the deal was that in exchange for

534
00:19:57,029 --> 00:19:54,960
technology that they would provide to us

535
00:19:59,190 --> 00:19:57,039
we agreed to ignore the abductions that

536
00:20:00,950 --> 00:19:59,200
were going on and suppress information

537
00:20:02,870 --> 00:20:00,960
on cattle mutilations

538
00:20:05,110 --> 00:20:02,880
the aliens assured mj-12 and the

539
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:05,120
abductions were merely the ongoing

540
00:20:08,310 --> 00:20:06,880
monitoring of developing such

541
00:20:10,870 --> 00:20:08,320
civilizations

542
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:10,880
in fact they're said the purposes of the

543
00:20:15,350 --> 00:20:12,240
abductions turned out to be the

544
00:20:17,909 --> 00:20:15,360
insertion of a three millimeter implant

545
00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:17,919
inside the nasal cavity for monitoring

546
00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:21,600
tracking and control of the abductee

547
00:20:25,270 --> 00:20:23,360
implementation of a post-hypnotic

548
00:20:27,430 --> 00:20:25,280
suggestion to carry out a specific

549
00:20:31,110 --> 00:20:27,440
activity during a specific time period

550
00:20:33,029 --> 00:20:31,120
within the next two to five years

551
00:20:34,549 --> 00:20:33,039
i read that right i read this document

552
00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:34,559
for the first time right at the end of

553
00:20:39,909 --> 00:20:37,120
that two to five year window like it's

554
00:20:41,190 --> 00:20:39,919
like oh my gosh we're writing them

555
00:20:42,789 --> 00:20:41,200
it could still happen so as far as

556
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:42,799
origin stories go

557
00:20:47,029 --> 00:20:45,360
ryan saw something i read john lehrer

558
00:20:48,950 --> 00:20:47,039
saying the aliens are gonna switch on

559
00:20:50,950 --> 00:20:48,960
all the abductees of the fifth column to

560
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:50,960
conquer us that was my

561
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:54,240
introduction to the to the field and the

562
00:20:58,070 --> 00:20:56,240
determination of some people so they

563
00:21:01,190 --> 00:20:58,080
could function as living sources for

564
00:21:02,390 --> 00:21:01,200
biological substances

565
00:21:03,669 --> 00:21:02,400
along with

566
00:21:06,149 --> 00:21:03,679
leer

567
00:21:08,390 --> 00:21:06,159
quote we cannot deny weather

568
00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:08,400
modification in the spring of our skies

569
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:10,080
really all you need to do is look up in

570
00:21:12,950 --> 00:21:12,080
the sky to know that something is very

571
00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:12,960
wrong

572
00:21:16,950 --> 00:21:14,640
we are also dealing with the fukushima

573
00:21:19,350 --> 00:21:16,960
disaster geoengineering genetically

574
00:21:21,750 --> 00:21:19,360
modified foods false flags in the news

575
00:21:24,149 --> 00:21:21,760
media control mind control possible fake

576
00:21:26,390 --> 00:21:24,159
alien invasion scenarios possible fake

577
00:21:27,909 --> 00:21:26,400
ascended master scenarios and the

578
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:27,919
threatening controlled collapse of the

579
00:21:33,909 --> 00:21:30,960
economy martial law fema camps and the

580
00:21:36,390 --> 00:21:33,919
shipping of civilians wow

581
00:21:39,669 --> 00:21:36,400
that's pretty much all of it

582
00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:39,679
that's every significant conspiracy

583
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:42,720
trend of the last 30 years

584
00:21:46,070 --> 00:21:44,400
in one paragraph

585
00:21:48,789 --> 00:21:46,080
and it's all true

586
00:21:50,630 --> 00:21:48,799
the 1954 eisenhower meeting

587
00:21:53,669 --> 00:21:50,640
is a great example

588
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:53,679
of how ufo culture used and reused a

589
00:21:56,870 --> 00:21:54,960
story

590
00:21:59,029 --> 00:21:56,880
altering details and timelines to suit

591
00:22:00,789 --> 00:21:59,039
various individual purposes over the

592
00:22:03,270 --> 00:22:00,799
decades

593
00:22:05,350 --> 00:22:03,280
those purposes being cynical i

594
00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:05,360
acknowledge that those purposes are all

595
00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:07,520
often gained notoriety

596
00:22:11,350 --> 00:22:09,679
of differentiating themselves from other

597
00:22:13,350 --> 00:22:11,360
people who are telling

598
00:22:16,870 --> 00:22:13,360
nearly identical stories

599
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:16,880
but i saw it first or i saw the document

600
00:22:24,230 --> 00:22:20,720
that wasn't disinformation you fell for

601
00:22:25,990 --> 00:22:24,240
the 1953 treaty but i know it was a 1954

602
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:26,000
treaty

603
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:30,320
document too

604
00:22:33,110 --> 00:22:31,919
and i know from a fact from when i was

605
00:22:34,870 --> 00:22:33,120
in the navy

606
00:22:37,029 --> 00:22:34,880
that that was

607
00:22:38,830 --> 00:22:37,039
pure disinformation

608
00:22:42,149 --> 00:22:38,840
i have secret

609
00:22:44,549 --> 00:22:42,159
knowledge that makes my book better

610
00:22:48,710 --> 00:22:44,559
that makes my appearance at a conference

611
00:22:52,470 --> 00:22:50,149
it's a very

612
00:22:54,549 --> 00:22:52,480
competitive capitalistic industry

613
00:22:56,470 --> 00:22:54,559
ufology which um

614
00:22:58,070 --> 00:22:56,480
makes it fun

615
00:22:59,669 --> 00:22:58,080
you know an american mythos in the

616
00:23:01,990 --> 00:22:59,679
making and people borrowing from one

617
00:23:03,510 --> 00:23:02,000
theory one conspiracy to another but at

618
00:23:06,070 --> 00:23:03,520
the root of a lot of this there really

619
00:23:07,350 --> 00:23:06,080
is the intelligence community you know

620
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:07,360
and the role that government plays in

621
00:23:10,950 --> 00:23:09,200
this and walter you've got a background

622
00:23:12,870 --> 00:23:10,960
in that and of course i know that you

623
00:23:14,789 --> 00:23:12,880
know some have even seen you as being

624
00:23:16,950 --> 00:23:14,799
strange though it may seem to us knowing

625
00:23:18,710 --> 00:23:16,960
this wonderful guy i love talking with

626
00:23:20,870 --> 00:23:18,720
walter i like to talk with him before i

627
00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:20,880
met him but now i really like him

628
00:23:25,270 --> 00:23:23,760
but but you a lot but people but people

629
00:23:26,470 --> 00:23:25,280
hear you and they say hold on you used

630
00:23:28,470 --> 00:23:26,480
to work for the air force you were a

631
00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:28,480
special agent and they're immediately

632
00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:30,000
they're immediately suspicious now how

633
00:23:33,669 --> 00:23:31,440
does that feel well what's interesting

634
00:23:35,350 --> 00:23:33,679
is you know some of the people that be

635
00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:35,360
immediately suspicious of me would

636
00:23:41,669 --> 00:23:36,400
embrace

637
00:23:45,430 --> 00:23:43,909
wait a minute how does this make sense

638
00:23:48,149 --> 00:23:45,440
and um

639
00:23:50,710 --> 00:23:48,159
yeah you know i've i've got that being

640
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:50,720
an ex osi guy because there's very few

641
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:54,320
of us in this field um

642
00:23:57,830 --> 00:23:56,400
so you know naturally

643
00:23:59,110 --> 00:23:57,840
you know you get some ire because

644
00:24:02,310 --> 00:23:59,120
there's people out there that think that

645
00:24:03,909 --> 00:24:02,320
osi are the the the hand behind

646
00:24:05,990 --> 00:24:03,919
you know keeping all the secrecy we're

647
00:24:08,789 --> 00:24:06,000
the ones blocking the truth from the

648
00:24:11,990 --> 00:24:08,799
people specifically the air force osi

649
00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:12,000
this this one military branches

650
00:24:15,510 --> 00:24:13,760
investigative unit you know there's the

651
00:24:16,549 --> 00:24:15,520
cia nsa there's all these others but the

652
00:24:22,950 --> 00:24:16,559
osi

653
00:24:24,870 --> 00:24:22,960
blocks you know the truth so yeah

654
00:24:26,470 --> 00:24:24,880
you know your personal experience though

655
00:24:27,990 --> 00:24:26,480
in so much of this now you talked about

656
00:24:29,990 --> 00:24:28,000
what your father told you even wrote a

657
00:24:31,350 --> 00:24:30,000
book about you your dad and his

658
00:24:32,710 --> 00:24:31,360
experience and what he told you at an

659
00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:32,720
early age tell us a little bit about

660
00:24:36,230 --> 00:24:35,440
that well the book is shimmering light

661
00:24:37,269 --> 00:24:36,240
and

662
00:24:39,190 --> 00:24:37,279
for

663
00:24:40,630 --> 00:24:39,200
a few decades my dad had told me the

664
00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:40,640
same story

665
00:24:44,630 --> 00:24:42,960
about being briefed on

666
00:24:46,710 --> 00:24:44,640
what happened at roswell and then being

667
00:24:49,029 --> 00:24:46,720
told you know the reason you guys he and

668
00:24:50,710 --> 00:24:49,039
the guys he was working with the reason

669
00:24:53,029 --> 00:24:50,720
you guys are being told this is because

670
00:24:54,549 --> 00:24:53,039
it's happened again now this was 1958

671
00:24:56,630 --> 00:24:54,559
they said it happened again in eastern

672
00:24:58,710 --> 00:24:56,640
arizona and according to my dad's story

673
00:25:02,470 --> 00:24:58,720
they were then flown to uh

674
00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:02,480
arizona and were part of this retrieval

675
00:25:06,470 --> 00:25:04,080
operation

676
00:25:07,590 --> 00:25:06,480
and you know he had told me this for

677
00:25:09,430 --> 00:25:07,600
years

678
00:25:11,909 --> 00:25:09,440
and i finally decided well you know a

679
00:25:13,909 --> 00:25:11,919
couple years he passed away

680
00:25:17,269 --> 00:25:13,919
10 years ago now this summer yeah this

681
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:17,279
june next month and um i finally decided

682
00:25:19,750 --> 00:25:18,480
you know what i really need to take a

683
00:25:23,190 --> 00:25:19,760
look at this

684
00:25:25,830 --> 00:25:23,200
and there was his version you know

685
00:25:27,029 --> 00:25:25,840
there was what was really going on in

686
00:25:29,590 --> 00:25:27,039
history

687
00:25:31,510 --> 00:25:29,600
there was all sorts of stuff in the mix

688
00:25:33,909 --> 00:25:31,520
and what i did was i just kind of looked

689
00:25:35,590 --> 00:25:33,919
at all of it as objectively as possible

690
00:25:37,190 --> 00:25:35,600
like an objective investigator and

691
00:25:39,350 --> 00:25:37,200
that's what the book does it says look

692
00:25:41,990 --> 00:25:39,360
here's what my dad told me but here's

693
00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:42,000
possibly why that was a planted

694
00:25:46,149 --> 00:25:44,320
narrative because this was the mk ultra

695
00:25:47,590 --> 00:25:46,159
era

696
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:47,600
when they were really digging into that

697
00:25:53,029 --> 00:25:50,559
it was the cia and it was classified and

698
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:53,039
the military branches were being allowed

699
00:25:56,789 --> 00:25:54,960
to observe and maybe use some of this

700
00:25:59,430 --> 00:25:56,799
and the it really turned the air force

701
00:26:01,830 --> 00:25:59,440
on mk ultra did the air force

702
00:26:03,909 --> 00:26:01,840
of all the military branches really

703
00:26:06,390 --> 00:26:03,919
really like the mk ultra stuff really

704
00:26:08,710 --> 00:26:06,400
and ran off and started doing their own

705
00:26:10,549 --> 00:26:08,720
and this was the context in which my dad

706
00:26:12,149 --> 00:26:10,559
was in the air force

707
00:26:13,269 --> 00:26:12,159
you know and

708
00:26:15,909 --> 00:26:13,279
having this

709
00:26:19,269 --> 00:26:15,919
this experience that he was relating to

710
00:26:21,510 --> 00:26:19,279
me so i had to as fun as my dad's story

711
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:21,520
is i had to consider that

712
00:26:26,630 --> 00:26:25,360
what he remembered was this fake

713
00:26:29,830 --> 00:26:26,640
narrative

714
00:26:32,950 --> 00:26:29,840
put in his memory using the mk ultra

715
00:26:35,269 --> 00:26:32,960
technology so to speak to suppress

716
00:26:38,070 --> 00:26:35,279
you know a classified operation and the

717
00:26:39,750 --> 00:26:38,080
book gets into you know

718
00:26:41,350 --> 00:26:39,760
as fun as this story is it just might

719
00:26:42,870 --> 00:26:41,360
simply not be the truth well and you

720
00:26:44,310 --> 00:26:42,880
know and even further you know whittle

721
00:26:46,149 --> 00:26:44,320
it kind of down i mean it would take

722
00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:46,159
even less than mind control or the

723
00:26:51,350 --> 00:26:49,520
reality of a cia program like that uh to

724
00:26:52,630 --> 00:26:51,360
instill in the minds of somebody a false

725
00:26:54,149 --> 00:26:52,640
narrative which is interesting because

726
00:26:55,669 --> 00:26:54,159
you know that's what bill cooper always

727
00:26:57,750 --> 00:26:55,679
claimed bill cooper's claim had always

728
00:26:59,510 --> 00:26:57,760
been that the government lied to me

729
00:27:03,430 --> 00:26:59,520
they've lied to everybody i was led to

730
00:27:04,630 --> 00:27:03,440
believe mj 12 was real and now uh ladies

731
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:04,640
and gentlemen i'm the first to tell you

732
00:27:08,390 --> 00:27:06,400
i'm wrong yeah right like as you pointed

733
00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:08,400
out earlier the very last to tell people

734
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:10,080
he's the very i want to get back around

735
00:27:13,750 --> 00:27:12,240
to bill cooper a little later too

736
00:27:15,990 --> 00:27:13,760
you know ryan we got to talk for a

737
00:27:17,590 --> 00:27:16,000
moment about your uh fine lecture that

738
00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:17,600
you gave today because again you i've

739
00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:19,200
told you this before

740
00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:21,120
and with background and broadcast myself

741
00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:22,960
i mean you know i see what you do as

742
00:27:25,909 --> 00:27:24,640
being fundamentally the role of a

743
00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:25,919
journalist

744
00:27:29,830 --> 00:27:28,240
you know you ask people and with ryan's

745
00:27:31,830 --> 00:27:29,840
lectures they're always fun because he

746
00:27:34,870 --> 00:27:31,840
gets the people who he's talking about

747
00:27:37,830 --> 00:27:34,880
to film videos of themselves telling the

748
00:27:39,909 --> 00:27:37,840
narrative explaining their stories and

749
00:27:41,110 --> 00:27:39,919
so it was really great and and i had no

750
00:27:43,750 --> 00:27:41,120
idea

751
00:27:45,909 --> 00:27:43,760
none whatsoever that so many people

752
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:45,919
and people that we knew you and i both

753
00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:47,890
that they had all seen sea monsters

754
00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:50,000
[Laughter]

755
00:27:53,269 --> 00:27:52,000
okay sorry full disclosure folks so paul

756
00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:53,279
kimball's been giving this poor young

757
00:27:58,470 --> 00:27:55,840
man hell all week because

758
00:28:01,190 --> 00:27:58,480
he he absolutely

759
00:28:02,389 --> 00:28:01,200
he had been led to believe ryan's that

760
00:28:03,510 --> 00:28:02,399
he was going to come up here and talk

761
00:28:06,789 --> 00:28:03,520
about

762
00:28:09,269 --> 00:28:06,799
ufos but all along ryan

763
00:28:10,230 --> 00:28:09,279
paul had had another idea yeah and it

764
00:28:12,549 --> 00:28:10,240
involved

765
00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:12,559
electro on sea monsters

766
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:15,120
hey you know what whatever gets me here

767
00:28:19,590 --> 00:28:17,919
on there on uh mr kimball's dime i'm

768
00:28:20,789 --> 00:28:19,600
fine with you want me to talk about uh

769
00:28:22,389 --> 00:28:20,799
right well that's what i said i said

770
00:28:23,990 --> 00:28:22,399
look i'll take one for the team here ron

771
00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:24,000
and i'll give a lecture on sea monsters

772
00:28:28,710 --> 00:28:26,080
but doing his due diligence ryan gets up

773
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:28,720
there to give his ufo lecture and makes

774
00:28:33,510 --> 00:28:31,440
a phony opening tile with sea monsters

775
00:28:35,830 --> 00:28:33,520
on it

776
00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:35,840
but i'm interested in sea monsters too

777
00:28:39,590 --> 00:28:38,240
but what you actually had to talk about

778
00:28:41,350 --> 00:28:39,600
had to do with people's personal

779
00:28:43,909 --> 00:28:41,360
experiences more in relation to ufo

780
00:28:44,950 --> 00:28:43,919
experiences i loved seeing the late john

781
00:28:46,549 --> 00:28:44,960
mack

782
00:28:48,230 --> 00:28:46,559
come up in the lecturing his discussion

783
00:28:49,590 --> 00:28:48,240
in a while yeah let's talk about that

784
00:28:51,269 --> 00:28:49,600
incident that he was investigating and

785
00:28:53,990 --> 00:28:51,279
also the testimony of the children from

786
00:28:55,990 --> 00:28:54,000
south africa who who he'd interviewed

787
00:28:59,190 --> 00:28:56,000
and talked with about what they saw yeah

788
00:29:00,149 --> 00:28:59,200
absolutely so this was back in 94.

789
00:29:02,789 --> 00:29:00,159
um

790
00:29:04,630 --> 00:29:02,799
this was in ruiz zimbabwe at the aerial

791
00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:04,640
school oh i'm sorry zimbabwe i said

792
00:29:08,070 --> 00:29:06,240
south africa okay

793
00:29:10,830 --> 00:29:08,080
um and

794
00:29:12,870 --> 00:29:10,840
62 children were on the

795
00:29:15,350 --> 00:29:12,880
playground and

796
00:29:18,230 --> 00:29:15,360
some of them noticed some some shimmery

797
00:29:20,230 --> 00:29:18,240
lights mr bosley

798
00:29:23,909 --> 00:29:20,240
in the distance they

799
00:29:27,269 --> 00:29:23,919
saw some flashes and

800
00:29:29,269 --> 00:29:27,279
suddenly this disc shaped craft lands

801
00:29:31,669 --> 00:29:29,279
just outside the schoolyard behind some

802
00:29:33,510 --> 00:29:31,679
trees a bunch of the children go over to

803
00:29:36,549 --> 00:29:33,520
check this thing out and they see two

804
00:29:38,310 --> 00:29:36,559
beings in front of the craft now

805
00:29:40,630 --> 00:29:38,320
these kids had never experienced

806
00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:40,640
anything like this before i would assume

807
00:29:45,830 --> 00:29:43,520
uh some of them approach and actually

808
00:29:49,750 --> 00:29:45,840
made eye contact with these beings

809
00:29:53,830 --> 00:29:49,760
uh some claim to have had messages uh

810
00:29:57,029 --> 00:29:53,840
downloaded almost telepathically uh some

811
00:29:58,870 --> 00:29:57,039
said that the beings you know were

812
00:30:01,669 --> 00:29:58,880
translucent shimmering some said they

813
00:30:04,950 --> 00:30:01,679
were gray with black wrap around eyes so

814
00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:04,960
an interesting you know diversity of

815
00:30:08,630 --> 00:30:07,200
witness accounts but again these were 62

816
00:30:10,310 --> 00:30:08,640
school children

817
00:30:12,230 --> 00:30:10,320
and

818
00:30:15,029 --> 00:30:12,240
no adults were at the site when this

819
00:30:16,630 --> 00:30:15,039
happened so they the kids freak out they

820
00:30:18,950 --> 00:30:16,640
go inside tell their teachers the

821
00:30:20,870 --> 00:30:18,960
teachers try to calm them down

822
00:30:22,870 --> 00:30:20,880
this thing you know before they went in

823
00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:22,880
to see the teachers shoots off

824
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:24,320
disappears

825
00:30:28,870 --> 00:30:27,120
and uh yeah that's that's kind of the

826
00:30:31,430 --> 00:30:28,880
case in a nutshell and that's when mr

827
00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:31,440
matt got involved yeah john mack uh goes

828
00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:33,200
and he interviews a number of these

829
00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:35,120
school children which is interesting

830
00:30:39,029 --> 00:30:36,880
because it was only certain age groups

831
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:39,039
that saw this yes there was a fence an

832
00:30:41,669 --> 00:30:40,559
actual physical fence that separated

833
00:30:43,269 --> 00:30:41,679
some of the other kids who were outside

834
00:30:44,470 --> 00:30:43,279
playing none of whom actually saw this

835
00:30:46,149 --> 00:30:44,480
experience

836
00:30:48,070 --> 00:30:46,159
one of the defining characteristics in

837
00:30:50,950 --> 00:30:48,080
the testimony given by the children the

838
00:30:54,389 --> 00:30:50,960
drawings that they procured had been the

839
00:30:56,389 --> 00:30:54,399
large again egg-shaped eyes

840
00:30:58,710 --> 00:30:56,399
black mostly some of the children

841
00:31:00,630 --> 00:30:58,720
described either you know what might be

842
00:31:03,669 --> 00:31:00,640
viewed as a white

843
00:31:06,070 --> 00:31:03,679
pupil of of sorts almost ovoid i guess

844
00:31:08,070 --> 00:31:06,080
in shape or possibly

845
00:31:09,909 --> 00:31:08,080
a reflective kind of a surface on the

846
00:31:12,149 --> 00:31:09,919
exterior of this large black tear-shaped

847
00:31:13,669 --> 00:31:12,159
eye and many children were describing

848
00:31:14,789 --> 00:31:13,679
this as being frightening to them they

849
00:31:16,789 --> 00:31:14,799
were afraid

850
00:31:18,149 --> 00:31:16,799
um you know one thing does come to mind

851
00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:18,159
you know i'm sure there'll be people

852
00:31:20,870 --> 00:31:20,159
who'll be upset at me i even asking this

853
00:31:22,549 --> 00:31:20,880
but

854
00:31:24,149 --> 00:31:22,559
as john is talking with one of the kids

855
00:31:25,990 --> 00:31:24,159
in one of the videos he's asking how

856
00:31:27,510 --> 00:31:26,000
does that make you feel and the child

857
00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:27,520
says well i don't know he said did it

858
00:31:31,990 --> 00:31:29,440
scare you yeah why did it scare you what

859
00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:32,000
scared you and i did almost feel a

860
00:31:35,350 --> 00:31:33,600
little like you might be able to say

861
00:31:36,950 --> 00:31:35,360
that there was uh some leading in the

862
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:36,960
question that's interesting you bring

863
00:31:42,230 --> 00:31:40,320
that up did you notice it also i i

864
00:31:44,950 --> 00:31:42,240
that was the one moment where i think

865
00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:44,960
mac may have slipped in his counseling

866
00:31:50,630 --> 00:31:47,679
of these children is he

867
00:31:52,950 --> 00:31:50,640
even before this he was such a respected

868
00:31:55,909 --> 00:31:52,960
psychiatrist absolutely um you know

869
00:31:58,389 --> 00:31:55,919
worked at harvard medical school um had

870
00:32:00,789 --> 00:31:58,399
written pulitzer prize-winning books

871
00:32:03,509 --> 00:32:00,799
it's incredible what the man is done now

872
00:32:05,350 --> 00:32:03,519
a gentleman asked me after the talk

873
00:32:08,549 --> 00:32:05,360
was he a child

874
00:32:11,190 --> 00:32:08,559
psychiatrist and no he was not he was

875
00:32:13,190 --> 00:32:11,200
not used to dealing with children um

876
00:32:15,190 --> 00:32:13,200
and i was trying

877
00:32:17,110 --> 00:32:15,200
to catch him in a leading question

878
00:32:19,029 --> 00:32:17,120
throughout those interviews and that was

879
00:32:20,789 --> 00:32:19,039
the only time where i'm like ooh

880
00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:20,799
he slept a little there that's a very

881
00:32:25,029 --> 00:32:22,720
crucial question it is and the reason

882
00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:25,039
why is because the result of the line of

883
00:32:30,230 --> 00:32:27,440
questions comes back around to

884
00:32:32,070 --> 00:32:30,240
uh so you may you felt in threatened by

885
00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:32,080
this what did the threat feel like and

886
00:32:34,470 --> 00:32:33,360
the child ultimately ends up saying i

887
00:32:36,630 --> 00:32:34,480
felt like they wanted to come and take

888
00:32:38,070 --> 00:32:36,640
me away he says so you felt like they

889
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:38,080
were going to come and try and capture

890
00:32:41,350 --> 00:32:39,840
you and take you which kind of leads

891
00:32:42,310 --> 00:32:41,360
back into this abduction

892
00:32:43,909 --> 00:32:42,320
narrative now i'm not saying the

893
00:32:45,750 --> 00:32:43,919
deductions don't happen or that they do

894
00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:45,760
i'm merely saying though that we have to

895
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:47,360
be very careful even with someone as

896
00:32:52,310 --> 00:32:49,760
respected and renowned as john mack uh

897
00:32:53,750 --> 00:32:52,320
in terms of how we interpret testimony

898
00:32:55,430 --> 00:32:53,760
did the child say these creatures were

899
00:32:58,149 --> 00:32:55,440
coming down and trying to take us away

900
00:32:59,350 --> 00:32:58,159
or is the psychologist uh you know again

901
00:33:01,190 --> 00:32:59,360
a renowned

902
00:33:02,630 --> 00:33:01,200
psychologist in this instance are they

903
00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:02,640
the ones who are kind of driving that

904
00:33:05,750 --> 00:33:04,000
narrative which kind of brings us around

905
00:33:06,789 --> 00:33:05,760
to even though he's not here right now

906
00:33:09,029 --> 00:33:06,799
he's supposed to be meeting us for

907
00:33:11,830 --> 00:33:09,039
dinner but our good friend greg bishop

908
00:33:13,990 --> 00:33:11,840
and his idea of a co-creation hypothesis

909
00:33:16,470 --> 00:33:14,000
i do wonder sometimes what role

910
00:33:18,870 --> 00:33:16,480
does our belief in all this stuff

911
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:18,880
play in how we perceive the phenomena

912
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:20,880
and guys i mean even if we take away the

913
00:33:23,990 --> 00:33:22,080
idea of

914
00:33:25,750 --> 00:33:24,000
well we're feeding into it in an

915
00:33:26,950 --> 00:33:25,760
energetic way and creating tulpas and

916
00:33:29,029 --> 00:33:26,960
all this kind of stuff no no bring it

917
00:33:30,870 --> 00:33:29,039
down to pure sociology

918
00:33:32,470 --> 00:33:30,880
what you think the phenomena is color's

919
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:32,480
the way that you perceive it i mean what

920
00:33:36,149 --> 00:33:34,080
would you say about that i think um i

921
00:33:39,190 --> 00:33:36,159
think it was greg who talked about sort

922
00:33:41,750 --> 00:33:39,200
of the science of what our brain

923
00:33:43,909 --> 00:33:41,760
interpolates into the actual visual

924
00:33:47,350 --> 00:33:43,919
information that we receive so just on a

925
00:33:49,830 --> 00:33:47,360
basic physiological level what we see

926
00:33:53,110 --> 00:33:49,840
what we what our brain tells us we're

927
00:33:55,269 --> 00:33:53,120
seeing might not be precisely what we're

928
00:33:56,310 --> 00:33:55,279
seeing or what another person would see

929
00:33:58,230 --> 00:33:56,320
because

930
00:34:00,389 --> 00:33:58,240
we might see those things those things

931
00:34:02,789 --> 00:34:00,399
in different ways so physiologically and

932
00:34:05,590 --> 00:34:02,799
and neurologically that that's that's

933
00:34:08,389 --> 00:34:05,600
certainly certainly a thing

934
00:34:10,069 --> 00:34:08,399
depending on what your interests are

935
00:34:12,310 --> 00:34:10,079
somebody sees some two people see

936
00:34:15,669 --> 00:34:12,320
something weird in the sky one person

937
00:34:18,069 --> 00:34:15,679
one of us for example might think ufo

938
00:34:20,710 --> 00:34:18,079
and the other person's brain might not

939
00:34:22,310 --> 00:34:20,720
jump to that conclusion immediately and

940
00:34:23,349 --> 00:34:22,320
might come to some other conclusion just

941
00:34:24,629 --> 00:34:23,359
based on

942
00:34:25,430 --> 00:34:24,639
on what

943
00:34:28,310 --> 00:34:25,440
they

944
00:34:30,869 --> 00:34:28,320
strange somebody looking up the sky

945
00:34:32,710 --> 00:34:30,879
would see that light's not moving the

946
00:34:35,909 --> 00:34:32,720
way it should and somebody else would be

947
00:34:37,669 --> 00:34:35,919
like lights whatever yeah um so i i

948
00:34:40,470 --> 00:34:37,679
think there there is i mean just on a

949
00:34:42,550 --> 00:34:40,480
basic practical mechanical level there

950
00:34:44,389 --> 00:34:42,560
are things we we bring to it oh

951
00:34:45,510 --> 00:34:44,399
absolutely you know walter something

952
00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:45,520
that you and i've talked a lot about

953
00:34:48,069 --> 00:34:46,560
over the last couple of days is

954
00:34:50,149 --> 00:34:48,079
synchronicity and i brought it up in my

955
00:34:52,790 --> 00:34:50,159
lecture in the context of you know carl

956
00:34:55,990 --> 00:34:52,800
jung having coined that term and again

957
00:34:58,470 --> 00:34:56,000
the idea here is the apparent

958
00:35:00,790 --> 00:34:58,480
connection between two events that are

959
00:35:02,069 --> 00:35:00,800
not causally related but i know in your

960
00:35:03,589 --> 00:35:02,079
own experience and i hope you can talk

961
00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:03,599
about this a little you know you've

962
00:35:07,190 --> 00:35:05,040
experienced what we might for lack of a

963
00:35:09,910 --> 00:35:07,200
better drone called synchronicities does

964
00:35:11,190 --> 00:35:09,920
that play into this in your mind

965
00:35:12,710 --> 00:35:11,200
certainly because

966
00:35:14,710 --> 00:35:12,720
everything we're talking about has to do

967
00:35:16,470 --> 00:35:14,720
with that greater

968
00:35:18,870 --> 00:35:16,480
fabric of reality

969
00:35:21,109 --> 00:35:18,880
and from my view and experience

970
00:35:22,550 --> 00:35:21,119
the things we're calling synchronicities

971
00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:22,560
these weird experiences we're having

972
00:35:26,470 --> 00:35:24,800
these are threads in the fabric of

973
00:35:27,910 --> 00:35:26,480
reality and and when you get to the

974
00:35:30,870 --> 00:35:27,920
point where you're experiencing the

975
00:35:32,630 --> 00:35:30,880
synchronicities and i think paul kimball

976
00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:32,640
would agree with this you know because

977
00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:34,800
he's been having these experiences as he

978
00:35:37,990 --> 00:35:36,480
discussed today

979
00:35:39,430 --> 00:35:38,000
um

980
00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:39,440
when you

981
00:35:43,270 --> 00:35:41,359
get to that level where you're noticing

982
00:35:45,670 --> 00:35:43,280
the synchronicities you've gotten down

983
00:35:46,630 --> 00:35:45,680
to that that base

984
00:35:48,630 --> 00:35:46,640
um

985
00:35:50,069 --> 00:35:48,640
again i use the word fabric that that

986
00:35:53,109 --> 00:35:50,079
base level

987
00:35:55,349 --> 00:35:53,119
that really uh runs through everything

988
00:35:57,750 --> 00:35:55,359
yeah and might even be from where you

989
00:36:01,190 --> 00:35:57,760
know it emerges

990
00:36:03,670 --> 00:36:01,200
and either manifests into what it is or

991
00:36:05,190 --> 00:36:03,680
engages with your subconscious

992
00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:05,200
and um

993
00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:08,160
gives you a a perception or an image to

994
00:36:13,030 --> 00:36:10,720
grasp an attempt to interpret you know

995
00:36:14,550 --> 00:36:13,040
in your own way um

996
00:36:16,390 --> 00:36:14,560
but when you get onto this level that

997
00:36:18,630 --> 00:36:16,400
we're talking about it gets you get into

998
00:36:19,589 --> 00:36:18,640
the purple in trying to describe it

999
00:36:21,270 --> 00:36:19,599
because

1000
00:36:23,430 --> 00:36:21,280
here's the thing it's intended to be

1001
00:36:26,550 --> 00:36:23,440
experienced and it's intended to be

1002
00:36:29,270 --> 00:36:26,560
experienced by an individual for the

1003
00:36:31,109 --> 00:36:29,280
most part ultimately on an individual

1004
00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:31,119
basis through individual interpretation

1005
00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:33,760
is where you get the meaning from it

1006
00:36:36,870 --> 00:36:35,440
it doesn't mean the things you're seeing

1007
00:36:39,670 --> 00:36:36,880
aren't real

1008
00:36:42,310 --> 00:36:39,680
but when you begin to see

1009
00:36:44,710 --> 00:36:42,320
the the synchronicities

1010
00:36:46,470 --> 00:36:44,720
you've you've gone in deep

1011
00:36:47,910 --> 00:36:46,480
you're in there and again paul was

1012
00:36:49,589 --> 00:36:47,920
talking today

1013
00:36:51,510 --> 00:36:49,599
about you know when you get into

1014
00:36:53,030 --> 00:36:51,520
something you get into this greater

1015
00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:53,040
world we're talking about and really

1016
00:36:56,950 --> 00:36:54,720
it's interesting how ufos are the things

1017
00:36:59,109 --> 00:36:56,960
that really each one of us individually

1018
00:37:00,630 --> 00:36:59,119
that's what you ask hey what got you in

1019
00:37:02,230 --> 00:37:00,640
interested in all this weird stuff for

1020
00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:02,240
most of us it starts with well it

1021
00:37:07,030 --> 00:37:04,560
started out with an interest in ufos but

1022
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:07,040
when paul was talking about you you go

1023
00:37:11,750 --> 00:37:08,880
into this thing be it paranormal

1024
00:37:13,910 --> 00:37:11,760
research or ufos and you get so far in

1025
00:37:15,670 --> 00:37:13,920
that you feel like you can't get out

1026
00:37:17,030 --> 00:37:15,680
um it's

1027
00:37:19,109 --> 00:37:17,040
that's another

1028
00:37:21,750 --> 00:37:19,119
in my mind what i was thinking of is

1029
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:21,760
that aspect of all this where you're in

1030
00:37:25,109 --> 00:37:22,560
there

1031
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:25,119
and you're seeing things you didn't see

1032
00:37:28,870 --> 00:37:26,880
before you stepped in

1033
00:37:32,069 --> 00:37:28,880
and once you step in there's no getting

1034
00:37:34,710 --> 00:37:32,079
out because there's nothing you you are

1035
00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:34,720
you you really in a way we're always in

1036
00:37:38,950 --> 00:37:36,640
what's happened is you've your eyes have

1037
00:37:41,270 --> 00:37:38,960
been opened the veil has been lifted and

1038
00:37:42,870 --> 00:37:41,280
now you can't unsee

1039
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:42,880
the things that have been revealed to

1040
00:37:47,349 --> 00:37:44,880
you so they're they're actually i would

1041
00:37:48,069 --> 00:37:47,359
say to paul now if you were here i'd say

1042
00:37:49,349 --> 00:37:48,079
well

1043
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:49,359
you can't get out because there is no

1044
00:37:55,270 --> 00:37:52,320
getting out now we're always in but now

1045
00:37:57,109 --> 00:37:55,280
you see more if does that sound vague oh

1046
00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:57,119
i said it was completely yeah let me

1047
00:38:00,470 --> 00:37:58,720
just get really personal for just a

1048
00:38:04,150 --> 00:38:00,480
second because it's all weekend i've

1049
00:38:06,550 --> 00:38:04,160
just been not quite in the days but um i

1050
00:38:08,069 --> 00:38:06,560
i keep kind of stepping outside of my

1051
00:38:09,910 --> 00:38:08,079
own little reality looking back at

1052
00:38:10,950 --> 00:38:09,920
everything from you know a few feet

1053
00:38:13,109 --> 00:38:10,960
outside

1054
00:38:14,950 --> 00:38:13,119
sort of a a detached kind of a

1055
00:38:16,550 --> 00:38:14,960
perspective or a disassociative state

1056
00:38:18,790 --> 00:38:16,560
you might say not quite an out-of-body

1057
00:38:20,950 --> 00:38:18,800
experience but i mean again when i get

1058
00:38:22,390 --> 00:38:20,960
around people who think like this and we

1059
00:38:24,870 --> 00:38:22,400
share these kind of experiences and this

1060
00:38:26,710 --> 00:38:24,880
kind of general outlook on things

1061
00:38:29,030 --> 00:38:26,720
i can't help but both feel elated but

1062
00:38:30,950 --> 00:38:29,040
also more perplexed than ever and it's

1063
00:38:32,390 --> 00:38:30,960
everything you were just describing walt

1064
00:38:34,230 --> 00:38:32,400
which is why i think you know again for

1065
00:38:35,670 --> 00:38:34,240
me i come back to the idea of

1066
00:38:37,670 --> 00:38:35,680
synchronicity i mean there's some who

1067
00:38:39,190 --> 00:38:37,680
look at it in the purely psychological

1068
00:38:41,510 --> 00:38:39,200
sense of well it's important because you

1069
00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:41,520
assign that meaning to it but i had this

1070
00:38:44,870 --> 00:38:43,040
funny little mantra going on the other

1071
00:38:45,829 --> 00:38:44,880
day where uh preparing the lecture

1072
00:38:47,349 --> 00:38:45,839
actually that i was going to give up

1073
00:38:49,750 --> 00:38:47,359
here at the esotericon this word

1074
00:38:51,270 --> 00:38:49,760
semelakra keeps coming to my mind

1075
00:38:53,510 --> 00:38:51,280
and it led me to this science paper from

1076
00:38:56,550 --> 00:38:53,520
the 1990s that actually posits a very

1077
00:38:58,390 --> 00:38:56,560
innovative idea in my mind which is that

1078
00:38:59,589 --> 00:38:58,400
everything in our

1079
00:39:01,349 --> 00:38:59,599
world

1080
00:39:03,510 --> 00:39:01,359
we humans is is

1081
00:39:05,589 --> 00:39:03,520
so deeply rooted in symbolism and the

1082
00:39:07,670 --> 00:39:05,599
symbolism and the and the symbolic

1083
00:39:10,550 --> 00:39:07,680
interaction isn't the bar sociological

1084
00:39:12,390 --> 00:39:10,560
term you know we look at a chair and we

1085
00:39:13,829 --> 00:39:12,400
know that a chair serves a functional

1086
00:39:15,349 --> 00:39:13,839
purpose and we have a word for it so

1087
00:39:17,750 --> 00:39:15,359
there's a language component there's the

1088
00:39:20,390 --> 00:39:17,760
cultural context and there's inherently

1089
00:39:22,150 --> 00:39:20,400
a you know a symbolism with them and

1090
00:39:24,230 --> 00:39:22,160
that everything in our environment is so

1091
00:39:26,550 --> 00:39:24,240
symbolic that we are shielded from the

1092
00:39:28,069 --> 00:39:26,560
actual reality evolutionarily

1093
00:39:29,670 --> 00:39:28,079
linguistically and otherwise it really

1094
00:39:31,270 --> 00:39:29,680
gets me thinking that again you don't

1095
00:39:34,150 --> 00:39:31,280
have to live in a simulation to

1096
00:39:36,790 --> 00:39:34,160
recognize that we perceive a simulated

1097
00:39:38,470 --> 00:39:36,800
sort of world an augmented reality as a

1098
00:39:39,349 --> 00:39:38,480
result of our evolution

1099
00:39:41,910 --> 00:39:39,359
and

1100
00:39:44,069 --> 00:39:41,920
for me in that capacity we function

1101
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:44,079
based on our ability to associate with

1102
00:39:48,470 --> 00:39:46,160
and identify symbols which makes

1103
00:39:49,990 --> 00:39:48,480
synchronicity all the more important

1104
00:39:51,670 --> 00:39:50,000
and young of course had been someone who

1105
00:39:53,829 --> 00:39:51,680
had always raised this question what if

1106
00:39:55,589 --> 00:39:53,839
the flying saucers play some sort of a

1107
00:39:57,030 --> 00:39:55,599
symbol similar kind of a symbolic and

1108
00:39:59,109 --> 00:39:57,040
synchronistic role

1109
00:40:00,550 --> 00:39:59,119
now to be clear again he had also said

1110
00:40:01,670 --> 00:40:00,560
well you know the radar traces are

1111
00:40:03,510 --> 00:40:01,680
pretty convincing there must be

1112
00:40:05,910 --> 00:40:03,520
something tangible too but i still can't

1113
00:40:07,910 --> 00:40:05,920
help but wonder if for some of us

1114
00:40:09,510 --> 00:40:07,920
seeing the flying saucer so to speak

1115
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:09,520
whether or not it's actually a saucer or

1116
00:40:13,349 --> 00:40:11,280
even flying is it representative of a

1117
00:40:15,430 --> 00:40:13,359
deeper symbolic kind of interaction in

1118
00:40:16,950 --> 00:40:15,440
our minds what does the saucer mean to

1119
00:40:19,270 --> 00:40:16,960
us and to each of us ryan what does it

1120
00:40:21,510 --> 00:40:19,280
mean to you to me i

1121
00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:21,520
you know after interviewing so many

1122
00:40:25,829 --> 00:40:24,160
witnesses and having had a sighting

1123
00:40:26,630 --> 00:40:25,839
myself um

1124
00:40:35,190 --> 00:40:26,640
i

1125
00:40:38,310 --> 00:40:35,200
answer or controller of the

1126
00:40:40,550 --> 00:40:38,320
quote-unquote ufo phenomena

1127
00:40:43,990 --> 00:40:40,560
but what i keep coming back to is that

1128
00:40:45,829 --> 00:40:44,000
word meaning like just finding meaning

1129
00:40:49,349 --> 00:40:45,839
whether it's you know through culture

1130
00:40:50,790 --> 00:40:49,359
through society um or your experience i

1131
00:40:53,270 --> 00:40:50,800
think whatever

1132
00:40:54,870 --> 00:40:53,280
lay behind some of these ufo events

1133
00:40:57,190 --> 00:40:54,880
what they want is to see how you

1134
00:40:59,510 --> 00:40:57,200
interpret what they did

1135
00:41:01,109 --> 00:40:59,520
maybe that's their way of communicating

1136
00:41:03,510 --> 00:41:01,119
if they can't do it on our level in

1137
00:41:05,990 --> 00:41:03,520
terms of words or

1138
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:06,000
even symbolism just to see how we

1139
00:41:09,910 --> 00:41:07,920
interpret what they're trying to

1140
00:41:11,349 --> 00:41:09,920
to do with us do you think that language

1141
00:41:14,150 --> 00:41:11,359
do you think that language can exist on

1142
00:41:16,550 --> 00:41:14,160
a level deeper than or apart from

1143
00:41:18,069 --> 00:41:16,560
actual language communications we know i

1144
00:41:19,910 --> 00:41:18,079
should say no language should can

1145
00:41:22,470 --> 00:41:19,920
communication exist on that level i

1146
00:41:25,589 --> 00:41:22,480
think so i think you know again i think

1147
00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:25,599
emotion plays a very big role in this

1148
00:41:31,589 --> 00:41:29,040
uh maybe they're able to again that that

1149
00:41:33,589 --> 00:41:31,599
they is a big question but

1150
00:41:35,990 --> 00:41:33,599
maybe they're able to uh

1151
00:41:38,790 --> 00:41:36,000
to know what we're feeling and want to

1152
00:41:39,829 --> 00:41:38,800
see how we react to their presence i i

1153
00:41:41,589 --> 00:41:39,839
don't know

1154
00:41:42,470 --> 00:41:41,599
but i do find emotion

1155
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:42,480
feeling

1156
00:41:49,030 --> 00:41:45,200
impact in aftermath extremely important

1157
00:41:50,790 --> 00:41:49,040
in all of this paranormal ufos esoterica

1158
00:41:53,589 --> 00:41:50,800
everything to know the heart of the ufos

1159
00:41:55,750 --> 00:41:53,599
to know the mind of god aaron

1160
00:41:58,790 --> 00:41:55,760
aaron what does it mean to you well um i

1161
00:42:02,790 --> 00:41:58,800
i gotta be honest to me personally as a

1162
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:02,800
my personal life not a lot um apart from

1163
00:42:08,150 --> 00:42:05,680
my my quite orthodox religious beliefs

1164
00:42:09,750 --> 00:42:08,160
i've had no supernatural experience of

1165
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:09,760
any kind in my entire life and i've

1166
00:42:12,710 --> 00:42:10,800
looked at like

1167
00:42:14,630 --> 00:42:12,720
everything that could have possibly been

1168
00:42:16,470 --> 00:42:14,640
weird and like no that wasn't weird

1169
00:42:17,670 --> 00:42:16,480
actually what it means to me

1170
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:17,680
is

1171
00:42:22,550 --> 00:42:19,440
it's another

1172
00:42:24,069 --> 00:42:22,560
the experiences people have are another

1173
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:24,079
lens through which

1174
00:42:28,630 --> 00:42:26,640
we can examine the human past and others

1175
00:42:30,470 --> 00:42:28,640
like anthropologists and sociologists

1176
00:42:31,750 --> 00:42:30,480
are looking at the human present

1177
00:42:33,750 --> 00:42:31,760
or should be looking at the human

1178
00:42:35,349 --> 00:42:33,760
presence through these lenses but i i

1179
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:35,359
think it's

1180
00:42:39,109 --> 00:42:37,280
to me i

1181
00:42:40,630 --> 00:42:39,119
i love the stories that's what got me

1182
00:42:43,589 --> 00:42:40,640
hooked are the stories and the

1183
00:42:46,309 --> 00:42:43,599
possibilities of what might be hidden

1184
00:42:47,990 --> 00:42:46,319
mostly on a very sort of prosaic

1185
00:42:50,069 --> 00:42:48,000
mechanical

1186
00:42:52,230 --> 00:42:50,079
political level what might be hidden

1187
00:42:54,230 --> 00:42:52,240
rather than than deep philosophical

1188
00:42:55,750 --> 00:42:54,240
things but um

1189
00:42:57,510 --> 00:42:55,760
but it's

1190
00:42:59,430 --> 00:42:57,520
i've had no experiences

1191
00:43:13,190 --> 00:42:59,440
i

1192
00:43:15,109 --> 00:43:13,200
um so you know people you can fool

1193
00:43:16,710 --> 00:43:15,119
yourself into like holly was saying

1194
00:43:19,270 --> 00:43:16,720
about the ouija board today you can

1195
00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:19,280
unconsciously sort of do things and

1196
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:20,720
sort of unconsciously consciously do

1197
00:43:25,510 --> 00:43:24,480
them but um but i i think it's

1198
00:43:27,670 --> 00:43:25,520
it

1199
00:43:29,910 --> 00:43:27,680
the entire tapestry

1200
00:43:32,630 --> 00:43:29,920
of the saucers and i still call them the

1201
00:43:34,790 --> 00:43:32,640
saucers is

1202
00:43:37,670 --> 00:43:34,800
it's one of the greatest untapped

1203
00:43:39,670 --> 00:43:37,680
sources for interesting stories that's

1204
00:43:41,589 --> 00:43:39,680
still out there because we've only

1205
00:43:43,270 --> 00:43:41,599
scraped the surface of people's

1206
00:43:45,510 --> 00:43:43,280
experiences and we've only scraped the

1207
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:45,520
surface of what these experiences might

1208
00:43:49,430 --> 00:43:47,680
mean because they're still trapped in a

1209
00:43:52,150 --> 00:43:49,440
lot of ways in this nuts and bolts

1210
00:43:54,550 --> 00:43:52,160
paradigm that's been sort of imposed on

1211
00:43:56,950 --> 00:43:54,560
the subject so i i think to me what it

1212
00:43:58,790 --> 00:43:56,960
means is is unlimited storytelling

1213
00:44:00,150 --> 00:43:58,800
potential i've said in the past that you

1214
00:44:02,390 --> 00:44:00,160
know for me

1215
00:44:05,030 --> 00:44:02,400
whether or not flying saucers as we term

1216
00:44:07,510 --> 00:44:05,040
them exists is irrelevant because the

1217
00:44:09,510 --> 00:44:07,520
fact that the idea alone exists is

1218
00:44:12,550 --> 00:44:09,520
influential on our culture society and

1219
00:44:14,470 --> 00:44:12,560
frankly perhaps our evolution

1220
00:44:15,990 --> 00:44:14,480
i mean it's just as effective even if

1221
00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:16,000
it's an imaginary concept but what about

1222
00:44:20,550 --> 00:44:18,000
you walter are they imaginary what do

1223
00:44:23,190 --> 00:44:20,560
they mean to you well

1224
00:44:25,190 --> 00:44:23,200
i think there's um

1225
00:44:27,349 --> 00:44:25,200
multiple manifestations of these things

1226
00:44:30,790 --> 00:44:27,359
i think the nuts and bolts

1227
00:44:32,550 --> 00:44:30,800
flying saucers so to speak exist

1228
00:44:34,230 --> 00:44:32,560
and i have less of a problem with the

1229
00:44:37,030 --> 00:44:34,240
nuts and bolts

1230
00:44:39,670 --> 00:44:37,040
of manifestation than i

1231
00:44:42,990 --> 00:44:39,680
do with the um

1232
00:44:46,230 --> 00:44:43,000
oh what's the word for the the the

1233
00:44:48,150 --> 00:44:46,240
religionizing yeah of the whole ufo

1234
00:44:52,150 --> 00:44:48,160
thing that the the whole space brothers

1235
00:44:57,349 --> 00:44:54,309
yeah i'm the guy who raised his hand to

1236
00:45:00,470 --> 00:44:57,359
question stanton friedman you know

1237
00:45:02,390 --> 00:45:00,480
the only yeah yeah yeah i i think

1238
00:45:04,550 --> 00:45:02,400
and this was one of the questions well

1239
00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:04,560
this is one of my peeves

1240
00:45:08,390 --> 00:45:06,720
is the because they have this technology

1241
00:45:09,030 --> 00:45:08,400
and they travel across space and visit

1242
00:45:11,349 --> 00:45:09,040
us

1243
00:45:13,510 --> 00:45:11,359
they're given this moral superiority and

1244
00:45:15,270 --> 00:45:13,520
humanity is so bad so bad so bad you

1245
00:45:18,550 --> 00:45:15,280
know i'm not come from that perspective

1246
00:45:20,630 --> 00:45:18,560
i totally recognize the there's dark

1247
00:45:22,790 --> 00:45:20,640
elements of humanity i mean i was in law

1248
00:45:26,150 --> 00:45:22,800
enforcement okay but i don't see

1249
00:45:29,430 --> 00:45:26,160
humankind as this just this unworthy

1250
00:45:31,349 --> 00:45:29,440
you know unshorn primate and we're so

1251
00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:31,359
primitive and they

1252
00:45:35,670 --> 00:45:33,760
they are so advanced and wonderful i i

1253
00:45:37,910 --> 00:45:35,680
just that just bugs me it's gonna become

1254
00:45:39,670 --> 00:45:37,920
cult like almost yeah it's scary to

1255
00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:39,680
think like that it's because i think

1256
00:45:44,150 --> 00:45:42,240
they're as human as we are so to speak

1257
00:45:46,390 --> 00:45:44,160
right i think these civilizations you

1258
00:45:47,430 --> 00:45:46,400
know just because they can come here you

1259
00:45:49,270 --> 00:45:47,440
know like

1260
00:45:51,510 --> 00:45:49,280
look at us for instance we went to the

1261
00:45:53,270 --> 00:45:51,520
moon just say hypothetically that

1262
00:45:56,150 --> 00:45:53,280
there's a civilization not as advanced

1263
00:45:58,950 --> 00:45:56,160
as we were in 1969 on the moon and they

1264
00:46:01,750 --> 00:45:58,960
would see us we know us were we that

1265
00:46:03,589 --> 00:46:01,760
morally superior as beings in 1960 no we

1266
00:46:05,829 --> 00:46:03,599
only thought we were yeah we well

1267
00:46:07,750 --> 00:46:05,839
everyone thinks they are yeah um every

1268
00:46:09,829 --> 00:46:07,760
civilization so but no we could build a

1269
00:46:12,150 --> 00:46:09,839
machine to go to the moon and that's the

1270
00:46:13,750 --> 00:46:12,160
way i see these these extraterrestrials

1271
00:46:15,990 --> 00:46:13,760
is they can build these machines and

1272
00:46:18,230 --> 00:46:16,000
cross space so what they have their

1273
00:46:19,829 --> 00:46:18,240
jerks they have their evil ones they

1274
00:46:21,349 --> 00:46:19,839
also have their great ones i think for

1275
00:46:24,550 --> 00:46:21,359
the most part

1276
00:46:27,349 --> 00:46:24,560
we're fine we're good beings

1277
00:46:29,589 --> 00:46:27,359
this i'm not a i'm not a like you know a

1278
00:46:32,230 --> 00:46:29,599
human defeatist and oh we're so bad and

1279
00:46:34,150 --> 00:46:32,240
i'm wad no no no no we're supposed to be

1280
00:46:35,750 --> 00:46:34,160
up on our feet looking up not cowering

1281
00:46:38,309 --> 00:46:35,760
down on our knees and beating the hell

1282
00:46:42,150 --> 00:46:38,319
out of ourselves over perceived sins and

1283
00:46:46,950 --> 00:46:44,630
the the the ufo thing

1284
00:46:49,990 --> 00:46:46,960
um the you know i there's the nuts and

1285
00:46:54,150 --> 00:46:50,000
bolts reality of them i believe

1286
00:46:57,109 --> 00:46:54,160
i'm convinced there is definitely the um

1287
00:46:58,950 --> 00:46:57,119
there there's some mystical

1288
00:47:01,270 --> 00:46:58,960
thing going on with a lot of these

1289
00:47:02,550 --> 00:47:01,280
experiences i mean that's what jung got

1290
00:47:04,230 --> 00:47:02,560
into

1291
00:47:07,990 --> 00:47:04,240
if you look at

1292
00:47:10,309 --> 00:47:08,000
ancient egyptology and hieroglyphs there

1293
00:47:12,150 --> 00:47:10,319
is a symbol that looks very much like a

1294
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:12,160
classic flying saucer you've seen it

1295
00:47:16,550 --> 00:47:14,160
it's got the saucer shape and even the

1296
00:47:18,630 --> 00:47:16,560
little top the dome thing and it's the

1297
00:47:20,470 --> 00:47:18,640
it's the netter or the ketter or

1298
00:47:22,390 --> 00:47:20,480
something it has to do with the

1299
00:47:23,750 --> 00:47:22,400
underworld which

1300
00:47:25,990 --> 00:47:23,760
you look at the underworld as the

1301
00:47:27,829 --> 00:47:26,000
subconscious and the subconscious is

1302
00:47:30,230 --> 00:47:27,839
where our archetypes and all that so

1303
00:47:31,990 --> 00:47:30,240
that brings you by way of ancient egypt

1304
00:47:34,950 --> 00:47:32,000
to young again

1305
00:47:37,589 --> 00:47:34,960
in in our modern vernacular on this and

1306
00:47:39,270 --> 00:47:37,599
so you know there's a there's something

1307
00:47:41,550 --> 00:47:39,280
going on right there that's a reality

1308
00:47:44,710 --> 00:47:41,560
with ufos so it's a

1309
00:47:47,270 --> 00:47:44,720
multi-faceted manifestation

1310
00:47:48,150 --> 00:47:47,280
that we've been dealing with since

1311
00:47:50,069 --> 00:47:48,160
you know

1312
00:47:52,230 --> 00:47:50,079
since the beginning yeah and in fact i

1313
00:47:53,990 --> 00:47:52,240
think it's perhaps psychologically and

1314
00:47:55,910 --> 00:47:54,000
maybe in the sense of the human soul

1315
00:47:57,910 --> 00:47:55,920
whatever that may or may not be it's a

1316
00:48:00,390 --> 00:47:57,920
deeper part of ourselves than we realize

1317
00:48:02,950 --> 00:48:00,400
esoteric on 2018 we've been talking with

1318
00:48:05,349 --> 00:48:02,960
ryan sprague ufo researcher aaron gulias

1319
00:48:07,190 --> 00:48:05,359
history teacher and also a ufo

1320
00:48:08,790 --> 00:48:07,200
researcher and historian mr walter

1321
00:48:10,309 --> 00:48:08,800
bosley a guy with a background in

1322
00:48:11,990 --> 00:48:10,319
government and an interest in the

1323
00:48:13,510 --> 00:48:12,000
esoteric and of course i'm micah hanks

1324
00:48:15,190 --> 00:48:13,520
it's been good talking with all you guys

1325
00:48:17,430 --> 00:48:15,200
real quick before we wrap up and head

1326
00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:17,440
off to dinner with our comrades why

1327
00:48:20,390 --> 00:48:18,720
don't we get information on where

1328
00:48:21,910 --> 00:48:20,400
everybody can find everybody's work ryan

1329
00:48:25,829 --> 00:48:21,920
start with you absolutely everything i

1330
00:48:27,990 --> 00:48:25,839
do uh is at summerinthisguys.com

1331
00:48:29,510 --> 00:48:28,000
um you can find the saucer life at

1332
00:48:33,030 --> 00:48:29,520
saucerlife.com

1333
00:48:35,430 --> 00:48:33,040
and all the usual podcast outlets

1334
00:48:37,349 --> 00:48:35,440
all my books are print on demand at

1335
00:48:39,430 --> 00:48:37,359
lulu.com

1336
00:48:41,510 --> 00:48:39,440
and you want to talk to me personally

1337
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:41,520
i'm at facebook i'm at twitter you can

1338
00:48:46,150 --> 00:48:43,359
find me out there excellent that's ryan

1339
00:48:48,069 --> 00:48:46,160
sprague aaron gulias walter bosley and

1340
00:48:49,270 --> 00:48:48,079
i'm micah hanks and we'll wrap this up

1341
00:48:51,109 --> 00:48:49,280
and guys i think it's about time to

1342
00:48:52,630 --> 00:48:51,119
enjoy a bit of the wonderful nova scotia

1343
00:48:54,150 --> 00:48:52,640
cuisine yeah i need some seafood man

1344
00:48:56,230 --> 00:48:54,160
let's go

1345
00:48:57,589 --> 00:48:56,240
i'm going for sushi

1346
00:49:00,470 --> 00:48:57,599
all right that is it for this week's

1347
00:49:03,309 --> 00:49:00,480
episode again a huge thank you to paul

1348
00:49:06,549 --> 00:49:03,319
kimball for having me at the 2018

1349
00:49:08,630 --> 00:49:06,559
esotericon i took tons of photos over

1350
00:49:09,990 --> 00:49:08,640
the weekend you can view all of those at

1351
00:49:13,109 --> 00:49:10,000
the official summer in the skies

1352
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:13,119
facebook group and on instagram follow

1353
00:49:18,470 --> 00:49:15,680
us at summerskiespod

1354
00:49:20,710 --> 00:49:18,480
we're also on twitter at somewhere skies

1355
00:49:23,190 --> 00:49:20,720
all past episodes articles news and

1356
00:49:25,109 --> 00:49:23,200
contact info can be found at somewhere

1357
00:49:27,349 --> 00:49:25,119
in the skies dot com

1358
00:49:29,829 --> 00:49:27,359
please rate and review the show wherever

1359
00:49:31,190 --> 00:49:29,839
possible it helps more than you know if

1360
00:49:33,109 --> 00:49:31,200
you'd like to help the show grow in

1361
00:49:35,829 --> 00:49:33,119
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1362
00:49:38,390 --> 00:49:35,839
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1363
00:49:41,589 --> 00:49:38,400
patreon subscriber today to learn more

1364
00:49:44,150 --> 00:49:41,599
and to join visit patreon.com

1365
00:49:46,710 --> 00:49:44,160
somewhere skies this week i wanted to

1366
00:49:49,990 --> 00:49:46,720
leave you with a song appropriately by

1367
00:49:53,270 --> 00:49:50,000
nova scotia band neon dreams this is the

1368
00:49:55,829 --> 00:49:53,280
track called shape of my mind i hope you

1369
00:50:18,230 --> 00:49:55,839
enjoy and remember keep your feet on the

1370
00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:19,990
at the official summer in the skies

1371
00:50:25,670 --> 00:50:23,040
facebook group and on instagram follow

1372
00:50:28,470 --> 00:50:25,680
us at summerskiespod

1373
00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:28,480
we're also on twitter at somewhere skies

1374
00:50:33,190 --> 00:50:30,720
all past episodes articles news and

1375
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contact info can be found at somewhere

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in the skies dot com

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please rate and review the show wherever

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possible it helps more than you know if

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you'd like to help the show grow in

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quality and quantity and receive bonus

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episodes and rewards consider becoming a

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patreon subscriber today to learn more

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and to join visit patreon.com

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somewhere skies this week i wanted to

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leave you with a song appropriately by

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nova scotia band neon dreams this is the

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track called shape of my mind i hope you